What happens to a Razor's Totem if the Razor falls unconscious?

[ThePainter]

Question: What happens to a Razor's Totem if the Razor falls unconscious?

This occurred in our game; the Razor created her Totem and was shortly thereafter knocked unconscious. And so the question became, should the Totem continue to defend the unconscious Razor, or should it cease to exist leaving the Razor defenceless?

There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules specifically to cover this eventuality.

The closest the rules seems to come to providing an answer (as far as I can see at any rate) is on page 140, where it says that the Totem 'will crumble or disappear as soon as the Razor no longer feels in danger'.

It seems to me that once the Razor is unconscious, they cannot feel themselves to be in any danger, and so the Totem will crumble/disappear. However, that depends on where the Razor's desire for 'companionship in times of trial' comes from i.e. the conscious, or the sub-conscious mind?

If the need for aid arises from the conscious mind, then it's bye-bye Totem! A bit harsh, but there you go! If however the need derives from the sub-conscious, then it's possible that the Totem would continue to exist and fight on until the normal time for its disappearance. This later point (i.e. continuing to exist and fight on) also holds true, if the Totem is actually imbued with its own semblance of life.

What do people think?

PS: In the game it was a moot point, as aid had reached the Razor by the time that she fell unconscious :-)

[Scarlet]

I think it as very unfair of you to knock me out in the first place!

From my point of view she would have felt in danger when she was knocked out so therefore totem should still defend her.


Nasty gm that you are!

[Elune]

The query I had was whether or not the golem would have let me close enough to administer first aid while you were unconscious - I didn't fancy being attacked while trying to (once again) selflessly save your life whilst my expensive designer clothes are ruined by you bleeding all over them :p.

(And if I find out where that bottle came from you will need more than a golem to protect you ) ;)

[ThePainter]

Who! Me? Scarlet ... you must be thinking of some other nasty GM! You cannot possibly be thinking about me!!! I'm innocent!!! It was just a pure coincidence that a fight started in that bar, and that poor Lunnie became involved! I would never coerce an innocent player into a bar fight; at odds of five against one no less! I just can't think what could have happened? I repeat ... it wasn't me!!! It was a trap ... someone else must have arranged it :)

Actually, it was a rather nasty thing to have happen; the unconscious bit, that is. But those were the rolls, and things like that happen sometimes!

You're right though, the big question is/was, does the unconscious mind still feel the conscious threat? I don't know? I tend to think not, but could be convinced otherwise.

Convince me! Someone, anyone!!! Opinions!

Elune, Elune, Elune! You must love your sister greatly to risk your expensive designer clothes in order to rescue her! Greater love hath no woman... Surely when Mharius comes to collect your soul, this potential sacrifice alone will outweigh any possible sin that you could ever commit! I know that the Catholic Church used to sell indulgences, but the get out of jail card here is so much greater...

[Christopher Ashe]

To get an answer to this question, one must consider the etheric rather than the mundane, the conscious or otherwise. Specifically, a totem will remain until the razor is no longer in danger. The razor, if still in danger though unconscious would still need defending and thus the totem would still proceed to annihilate until such time as the razor was out of danger. Personally, as a GM, i find it feasible that the totem, depending on what it was and the razor's connection to it, might actually guard the razor as it removed him or her from harm.

This brings another factor into consideration: the razor's totem connection. A totemic razor, that is, one whose primary affinity with the ether lies in the Linaya path, might possess a greater feel for their totem than others, for instance, the classical example of the child with a doll totem. This is one of the things I'm working on in Wielding the Ether (working title).

There is definitely room for argument about conscious and unconscious based on the ruling - but one must first consider the absolute quirk of raze: it protects the razor; she or he is the only one the power cares for. Therefore, when in doubt, one should revert to what most benefits the razor. That's one of the key factors that makes razor's so potent.

Now, as a nasty side effect, which is also the province of razors - the razor if unconscious possesses no ability to identify friends as not being a threat and I would therefore submit that all bets are off and the totem goes after everything until the razor is completely out of harm - this is the part where you PCs drop weapons hit the ground and pray the gods you look harmless ;)

My tuppence ;)

- Ashe

[ThePainter]

Hmmm! I didn't really think about it in quite those terms; the etheric connection that is! I merely thought about it in terms of whether the Razor could perceive the danger! My mistake! Considered in terms of the etheric connection between the two, the continued existence of the totem does indeed make sense. I certainly have no problem running with this rule, as I said; I wasn't really convinced either way ... and when in doubt, ask!

Rats!!! :( Lunnie/Scarlet will be insufferable :)

The point concerning the exact nature of the razor's totem connection is very interesting. As yet, we haven't really been playing long enough for the player's primary raze affinity to become well established (there wasn't really one at game start - although a slight stat tendency towards Zina), but I suspect that Lunnie/Scarlet may end up preferring this affinity. It's certainly what she's used most so far! :rolleyes: That said, maybe that's merely because she hasn't actually used Zina as yet?

On the other hand, none of us had really considered the concept of a primary raze path/affinity! We'll have to consider this further.

If I understand what you're saying correctly, there could be at least two factors at work here: 1) a tendency for the razor to rely on/use a specific affinity i.e. the primary affinity, and 2) a tendency to even use a specific form of guardian/totem i.e. a child's teddy-bear. Although this latter point would in all likelihood merely accentuate the pre-existing primary affinity?

I suspect that this is something that really has to be role-played, as pre-game plans don't always work quite as well as envisioned in the actual game itself. That said, given the ether, it does seem perfectly reasonable that a greater connection could exist for a totemic razor than for a normal razor utilising Linaya. The problem of course remains in defining the exact nature of that greater connection ... but that's your problem :)

The point about reverting to what most benefits the razor is well take too; I'll try to remember it! And if I can't, I'm sure that my players will remind me. Two of them are razors!!!

Either way, thanks for the clarification and things to think about - cheers.

PS: Must remember nature of the ether!!!

PPS: Wielding the Ether (working title) - Sounds interesting.

[Scarlet]

What do you mean l will be insufferable?

A girl could take a huff at that.

I'm just not respected by my gm! boo hoo!

Lunnie was enjoying the fight till someone turned the lights out wonder who that was?

any ideas El?

[Elune]

What do you mean l will be insufferable?
not will be, dear, ARE!


Lunnie was enjoying the fight till someone turned the lights out wonder who that was?

any ideas El?
Perhaps I was distracted because of the bottle someone threw at my head... ;)

(p.s. I think my spelling of Looney is more fitting).

I could simply NOT help, next time you know... :p

[ThePainter]

Ladies, ladies... Let's not quarrel! And of course I respect you Lunnie :-) ...alright, maybe not insufferable, but how's about just a tiny little bit smug? ;D

As for turning out the lights: I've no idea who did that, just like I've no idea who threw the bottle that hit poor little L. Personally, I think that it was that big chap that Lunnie was thumping :) ...so she was protecting Elune really :p

And as for the spelling Looney ...what can I say but beware what you sow; both Elune and L have their own possibilities!